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 Post subject: Plate 136
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:04 am 
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I have just acquired a mint (og) block of 9 (RC - TE) in fine condition. They are of course on lavender-tinted paper. They were sold by a local dealer in antique items, obviously not a philatelist as they were advertised as from 1841. The gum is virtually undisturbed except for a couple of tiny water spots. Gibbons mentions that Plates 132 to 136 were printed on “thicker, lavender-tinted paper” but what do they mean by “thicker”? Thicker than what? And exactly how thick? Their quoted price for stamps on “thicker lavender-tinted paper is considerably higher than the basic stamp in this group, so the matter is of more than passing interest. Any ideas?


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 Post subject: Re: Plate 136
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:23 pm 
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Hi Petrod,
This is an interesting topic, i believe that more research is needed .I am not alone in
being sceptical about the set in stone statement that this paper appears only on these plates . Was it experimental, and what was the reason for the apparent abrupt change in paper thickness and shade?

Stanley Gibbons have published wrong information concerning paper thickness on other line engraved issues before , so they may be wrong about this.
I wonder if a micrometer could detect paper thickness accurately, i dont know how specialist dealers determine this
I know that this does not answer your question, in the next few days i will look in my
collection at the examples from these plates, to see if this paper is a different shade
and if it appears any thicker than all the other plates from this period.


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 Post subject: Re: Plate 136
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:39 pm 
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Thanks for your interest - look forward to your discoveries. In my case the shade of the paper is in no doubt; it is definitely lavender. But as to thickness...


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 Post subject: Re: Plate 136
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 11:43 pm 
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On reflection, of course one could measure the thickness of the paper with a micrometer, but this would still not answer my question - "thicker than what?"


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 Post subject: Re: Plate 136
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:28 am 
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I have now measured the thickness of several used stamps in my collection from this group and find that they average .03 mm both lavender-tinted and less so. However in the block of 9, which are of course all mint with gum, they average .12 mm. I have done a similar exercise on mint and used stamps on white or yellowish paper from around the same era and the measurements are the same, i.e. .03 for used and .12 for mint, on average. So I am none the wiser as to Gibbons’ “thicker” paper.


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 Post subject: Re: Plate 136
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:21 pm 
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.Hi Petrod,
I have taken many measurements concerning paper thickness of both normal paper and lavender tinted paper from
plates 119 to 144.
I examined seven lavender papered examples they are virtually all outside of the range stated by the Gibbons Specialised Catalogue.

Some of these examples did have patches of gum remaining , some had no gum, none
had any stamp hinge remains.
I took at least four readings of each stamp and double checked my results the next day
using a digital micrometer. In millimetres.
Plate 133 on lavender 0.06 to 0.08
Plate 119 on lavender 0.06 to 0.09
Plate 124 on lavender 0.03 to 0.06
Plate 125 on lavender 0.06 to 0.08
Plate 133 on lavender 0.06 to 0.08
Plate 137 on lavender 0.04 to 0.07


On Plates before the accepted lavender period
Plate 119 on normal paper 0.06 to O.09
Plate 124 on normal paper , 3 examples 0.03 to 0.06

On Plates after the accepted lavender period on non lavender paper
Plate 138 0.05 to 0.06
Plate 139 0.04 to 0.05
Plate 144 0.03 to 0.04

On the one example within the accepted range 132 to 136 the paper is thicker. I need many more examples to give you a better answer.


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 Post subject: Re: Plate 136
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:45 pm 
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Hi Petrod
To further my answer to your question.
It appears that on average on the stamps before the lavender period measure .05 mm
in depth.
On stamps within the lavender period .06
After the lavender period ,completely random ranging from 0.01 to 0.12.
Seven stamps with readings 0.01 to 0.04
Five stamps from 0.05 to 0.07
Four stamps from 0.08 to 0.13
So far , the thickest stamps are from these plates. I will continue to investigate further as i find more examples.
Regards, Andrew.


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 Post subject: Re: Plate 136
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:03 pm 
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Hi Petrod,
I have been looking at a few specialist dealers websites for lavender tinted paper.
There could be a range of lavender. I have also noticed that in every example the queens head on the reverse has less ink and is never completely lavender
I have yet to see any example that is completely coloured on the reverse that has been
accepted as this variety by any dealer.


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 Post subject: Re: Plate 136
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:52 pm 
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Posts: 41
Very interesting Andrew. The more we measure, the more confusing it seems to become. I attach scans of front and back of my piece and although the colour is not perfectly rendered, one can see that the paper is undoubtedly lavender both front and back.

Regards,

Peter


Attachments:
img041.pdf [530.39 KiB]
Downloaded 29 times
IMG_20200720_0002.pdf [244.72 KiB]
Downloaded 45 times


Last edited by petrod on Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Plate 136
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:15 pm 
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Hit Peter,
Many thanks for sending your attachment, its a very nice item. It must look even better in real life.

It really is a very interesting block, especially with the original gum.
It appears to have a lavender tint from here, the colour reproduction may not be 100% accurate as you stated.
I still maintain that lavender exists outside of the plates listed by Gibbons,
i also believe that lavender is harder to find than the blue or white paper used around this period.The Specialist dealers do charge more for this variety.


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 Post subject: Re: Plate 136
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:03 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:00 pm
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I have managed to do a scan which more accurately represents the colour of the stamps, although it may be slightly on the bright side! Probably should spend some time on calibrating my screen, but rarely need great accuracy. When using Photoshop it is easy to compensate for these sorts of discrepancies, but the result is huge files which do not email very well and I doubt would be very welcome on this website.


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 Post subject: Re: Plate 136
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:45 pm 
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Hi Petrod, thanks for the new scan, it looks more like the distinctive lavender, i
wonder if there is a small range of shades within this classification. Dont want to
complicate things but some long time dealers who have handled many examples must
have some opinion .It is an interesting area to get involved with.


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 Post subject: Re: Plate 136
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:12 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:00 pm
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Location: East Anglia
Petrod,
Sorry to apply a note of caution. To my eye your nice block is on very blue paper, rather than within the SG category of lavender-tinted. But I always apply the cautionary note that is with my eyes through my screen via your scan, any or all of which can change the colour perception.


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 Post subject: Re: Plate 136
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:42 pm 
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Posts: 41
Mmm... There is absolutely no doubt that it is Plate 136, which Gibbons maintains was the last in the group of “lavender” tinted paper. I agree that colour perception is a very difficult area, and seems to be rather subjective, which is why I have for the most part ignored “shades” in my collection.


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